Self Defense bill – HB 228

Since my report on Senate Judiciary carving on HB 228, several of you have replied to ask, as stated by one list member, “Is the creation of two more kill zones worth the passage of this bill?” Good question.

Like many of you, I am VERY frustrated by the expansion of the “prohibited places” law, 45-8-328 to include “health care facilities.” The only good news is that this expansion does not include doctors’ offices (small good news, I admit). The amendment adds a new 1(d) to 45-8-328 (places where permittees may not exercise a CWP) to include “health care facilities as defined in 50-5-101.” The definition there is this:

” (23) (a) “Health care facility” or “facility” means all or a portion of an institution, building, or agency, private or public, excluding federal facilities, whether organized for profit or not, that is used, operated, or designed to provide health services, medical treatment, or nursing, rehabilitative, or preventive care to any individual. The term includes chemical dependency facilities, critical access hospitals, end-stage renal dialysis facilities, home health agencies, home infusion therapy agencies, hospices, hospitals, infirmaries, long-term care facilities, intermediate care facilities for the developmentally disabled, medical assistance facilities, mental health centers, outpatient centers for primary care, outpatient centers for surgical services, rehabilitation facilities, residential care facilities, and residential treatment facilities.
(b) The term does not include offices of private physicians, dentists, or other physical or mental health care workers regulated under Title 37, including licensed addiction counselors.”

Like you, any expansion of the stupid “prohibited places” law gets my dander up. Even the “authorities” don’t understand that the poorly-drafted prohibited places law does not prohibit open carry (let’s not tell them just yet), nor does it contain ANY exception for police. So, if HB 228 passes as it now is and an armed police detective goes to the hospital to interview a victim and forgets to take off his coat before entering, he becomes a criminal under state law (let’s not tell them this either – they’d just exempt police). Further, we all know that if criminals want to conceal their guns, they’ll just do it. Actually, it violates the Constitution to try to force criminals to expose their guns because that would violate their right to freedom from self-incrimination! What a mess the prohibited places statute is!

The balancing questions are, how much would trying to fight this amendment to HB 228 jeopardize HB 228, and how does loss of CCW in hospitals weigh against what we would gain with HB 228, as is?

There’s still a LOT of good stuff in HB 228. I believe that the shift in burden of proof and therefore guaranteeing the presumption of innocence in self defense is HUGE. Some consulting attorneys even argue that this is the most important feature of the whole bill. Even though rearranged and, I think, watered down some, the defensive display section is important too. It affirms for the first time ever that open carry is okay in Montana, that it is acceptable to announce “I have a gun and I will defend myself” if needed, and more.

Plus, there are a bunch of second priority items still included – landlords and tenants, police investigation not to overlook evidence of self defense, police may not destroy guns, and use of reasonable force to effect citizens’ arrest.

Of course it’s agonizing to attempt to make the call – are we better off getting HB 228 as is or not? I have been in constant consultation with Brian Judy, our most helpful NRA State Liaison (he’s really a good guy, whatever you think of the NRA) about HB 228. Here’s our bottom line recommendation:

Go with HB 228 as is. Contact your and other senators and ask them to support HB 228 when it comes up for Second Reading in the Senate. There is no chance, because of legislative deadlines, to get HB 228 amended on the Senate floor. Let’s push it as is.

However, HB 228 will have to go back to the House to see if the House will concur with Senate amendments. If the House does not concur, then HB 228 goes to a “conference committee” to work out differences between the Senate and House versions. There is a whole batch of risks associated with what a conference committee might do. But, we are exploring now what might be done in conference committee about the “health care facility” and Alaska carry issues. No guarantees and plenty of risks, but we’re looking into it.

In the meantime, my net advice is, contact your senator and any other senators and ask them to support HB 228. Even though it’s not as juicy as it was, I think it’s will worth supporting.

Best wishes,

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

Report – HB 228; Senate Judiciary

In the Senate Judiciary Committee executive action on HB 228 this morning, we lost “Alaska carry” (concealed carry without permits inside city limits). All Committee Democrats voted for Senator Jent’s motion to strip Alaska carry from HB 228, as well as Republican Senators Perry and Esp. Brian Judy and I are now discussing whether or not it may be desirable or possible to attempt a recovery from this when HB 228 comes to the Senate floor on Second Reading on Wednesday (probably).

The Committee also failed to accept Senator Shockley’s Colorado-derived “make my day” language which would have lowered the bar for use of force inside a person’s dwelling. Thus, the rules for use of force now remain the same under HB 228 in a person’s home as they would be in any “occupied structure” under current law. Note: An occupied structure could be a quick stop or other place.

The Committee also accepted an amendment to extend the concealed carry prohibition which now includes bars, banks and public buildings, to hospitals and medical offices.

Preserved in the bill are the following: Shifting of burden of proof in self defense cases to require prosecutors to prove a defender not justified in using force in self defense instances; no duty to summon help or flee before defending; a revised defensive display allowance and definition including affirmative recognition of open carry; requiring investigators to collect evidence of legitimate self defense at a scene; the prohibition that firearms taken by law enforcement not be destroyed; and allowance for use of reasonable force to effect a citizen’s arrest.

Once we figure out what, if anything, we will do to try to recover from the loss of the Alaska carry provision, I’ll get out an alert about messages to all senators for Senate Second Reading on Wednesday.

Stay tuned ….

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

Your attention please

Two Republican senators voted against HJ 14 (guns in National Parks) today. I worry about what these senators will do when HB 246 and HB 228 come before the Senate this week.

The two Republican senators voting against HJ 14 were Senator John Esp (R-Big Timber) and Senator Ryan Zinke (R-Whitefish).

John Esp is an old hand who probably understands our issues pretty well. Besides, he always votes against resolutions, as HJ 14 is. So, I’m not really worried about Esp in re HB 246 and HB 228.

Ryan Zinke is another matter. Ryan actually spoke against HJ 14 on the Senate floor today. What about Zinke?

Not only is Zinke a freshman in the Senate, he has never served in the Legislature before, unlike many senators who served in the House before getting elected to the Senate. Politically speaking, my son would say Zinke is “fresh out of the box.” Zinke has earned a reputation in the Senate for not having learned yet what he doesn’t know.

Zinke is (if my memory serves me correctly) a former Navy Seal. His attitude about firearms seems to have been formed in the military. I know he told me very forcefully that he’s seen in the military what damage .50-caliber arms can do and that civilians absolutely should not be allowed to own them. He is adamantly opposed to .50-cals in non-military hands.

I am told that his opposition to HJ 14 today is pretty typical of his making arguments on the Senate floor, arguments that he has not thought through very well. He seems more interested in announcing his opinions than in listening thoughtfully to the opinions of others.

Senator Zinke gets his email at ryanzinke@yahoo.com

It would probably be good for Senator Zinke to get an email from you about HJ 14. Why shouldn’t we be allowed to carry guns in National Parks? After all, in all the Park-like Forest Service lands in Montana people can carry guns for self defense, and THAT doesn’t result in any mayhem. Why should it be any different in a National Park?

Be polite. Don’t offend Zinke, but he needs to know we are watching and paying attention. I’d hate to think he might go off on a similar tangent when our Self Defense bill, HB 228, comes before the Senate in a couple of days. For now, talk to him about HJ 14. Give him some good reasons to switch his vote and vote FOR HJ 14 when it comes up on Third Reading on Monday. Ask him to vote FOR HJ 14 on Third Reading. Let me know how he responds to you.

Thanks loads for your help with this.

Best wishes,

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

HJ 14 passes Senate Second Reading

HJ 14, supporting guns in National Parks, passed the Senate on Second Reading today by a vote of 31-17.

It will come up for Third Reading and a final vote on Monday. If it passes that vote, HJ 14 will need to go back to the House to see if the House will concur with Senate amendments. Since the Senate amendment is non-consequential, the House will almost certainly concur.

The names of those voting against HJ 14 in the Senate today are pasted below.

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com
===========================
Senators voting AGAINST HJ 14 on Senate Second Reading

Branae, Gary
Cooney, Mike
Esp, John
Hansen, Ken (Kim)
Hawks, Bob
Jent, Larry
Juneau, Carol
Kaufmann, Christine
Keane, Jim
Larsen, Cliff
Moss, Lynda
Schmidt, Trudi
Squires, Carolyn
Wanzenried, David
Williams, Carol
Windy Boy, Jonathan
Zinke, Ryan

HJ 14 tomorrow – HB 246 & 228 soon

HJ 14, about guns in National Parks, is scheduled for Second Reading in the Senate tomorrow, Saturday, 3/28. HJ 14 expresses the support of Montana for the recent change in Department of Interior regulation allowing people to carry concealed weapons for self defense in National Parks, in ways consistent with the laws of the state where the Park is located. The Brady Gang has filed suit in federal court to block those regulations, a D.C. federal judge has issues a temporary injunction blocking the regs, and the NRA has intervened in the lawsuit and has appealed the injunction. The NRA has little confidence that the DoI of Obama will aggressively defend the rule change by the DoI of Bush.

HJ 14 also urges the Montana Attorney General to intervene in this lawsuit to protect the interests of Montanans. HJ 14 passed the Senate Judiciary Committee on a party-line vote – Democrats voting against.

So, if you’d like to see HJ 14 pass, send messages to your senator and/or other senators asking them to please support HJ 14. It’s about self defense. Opponents argue that people carrying concealed weapons in Parks will use their concealed weapons to become poachers, and that wildlife in Parks will become at risk. They also argue that Parks are relatively safe, and people should depend on Park rangers to protect them. We say that of all the people killed in Parks by two or four-legged predators, 100% of them are dead.

Here is the Senate Roster, and here is the Online message form.

HB 246, Montana-made guns, will probably be scheduled for Second Reading in the Senate on Monday.

HB 228, self defense, will probably be scheduled for Second Reading on Tuesday or Wednesday. I’ll get separate alerts our about each of these as soon as I can confirm their schedules. We will need a HUGE PUSH to get messages to legislators about these two bills, especially HB 228.

Stay tuned.

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

Today’s report – HB 228, HB 246 & HJ 14

HB 228. This morning I attended a session of the subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee it observe and participate in the subcommittee’s ongoing work on HB 228. If I had an hour to write (and you had time to read what I’d write), I couldn’t cover all the details and nuances. But here’s the overview:

Although there are lot of amendments proposed, and a whole bunch will probably be made, HB 228 will remain largely intact, even with these proposed changes. None of these proposed changes are a done deal until the full Senate Judiciary Committee acts on them. That will be Monday morning, if you wish to tune in via the Legislature’s Website and watch or listen to the deliberations of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

I’ve tracked the changes proposed and have discussed these in detail with Brian Judy, the NRA State Liaison for Montana, and with senators on the subcommittee. Many proposed changes are technical rewording amendments, and some are accomplishing the same thing as the final House version but using a different strategy to change current law. Some plow new ground and improve the bill. In one section, I think, we may lose a bit of ground, but not a serious amount. All in all, I think the subcommittee has improved the bill, made it more saleable to the full Senate, and has improved the chances for final passage.

Permitless concealed carry (“Alaska carry”) is still intact, shifting burden of proof to the state for instances of self defense is still intact, forbidding law enforcement destruction of firearms is intact, prohibiting landlords from preventing tenants’ possession of firearms is intact (with a new exception for the university system), a new provision allowing possession and carry by people convicted of non-violent crime but who have had their rights restored pursuant to the requirement of the Montana Constitution has been added, and the defensive display section has been stricken and replaced with language that doesn’t do the job as well but 70% as well, I think.

So, HB 228 is still in good shape – my opinion – well worth supporting. Watch or listen to the deliberation of the Senate Judiciary Committee Monday morning if you want the full lowdown. None of the proposed changes mean anything until voted on by the members of the full Committee. Second reading on the Senate floor will be Tuesday, or Wednesday at the latest. I’ll get another alert out after the conclusion of the full Senate Judiciary Committee executive session on Monday. I assume I will then recommend that you contact your or all senators and ask them to support HB 228, but I need to wait to see what the full Committee does with HB 228 before offering that recommendation (same with the NRA). Be prepared to get messages to senators Monday afternoon/evening or Tuesday morning – it may be a crash effort.

HB 246. The public hearing was held this morning by the Senate Business and Labor Committee on HB 246, Montana-made guns. There were no opponents. Immediately after the hearing (unusual) the Committee took executive action and passed the bill. It now goes to the floor of the Senate for Second Reading, probably on Monday. I’ll get a separate alert out on that when I can confirm the Second Reading date.

HJ 14 (guns in National Parks) was supposed to be on Senate Second Reading today, but was put off until tomorrow (news just in).

More soon.

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

Wolf Wars Appear Eminent

Speaking of gray wolves in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming only, it now appears that wolf wars may be on the horizon. Sportsmen, ranchers, individuals, legislators and other rational thinking people are coming to the end of their ropes on this wolf issue. One item may have temporarily stemmed the tide – Obama’s announcement to proceed with removing federal protection of the wolf. How long will this put off the inevitable?

This means very little to most in the Northern Rockies who have been lied to in the past, promises made and promises reneged on. And now in some areas, sportsmen sit helplessly by as years of money and effort are being flushed down the drain as an unmanaged and out of control wolf pack destroys deer and elk herds. Read more

HB 246 – Montana-made guns – scheduled for hearing

MSSA’s Montana-made guns bill, HB 246, is now scheduled for its public hearing in the Senate before the Senate Business and Labor Committee on Friday, March 27th, at 10 AM in Capitol Room 422.

Plan to be there if you can. If not, plan to send messages to committee members on Wednesday or Thursday asking for support for HB 246.

You probably remember that the purpose of HB 246 is to set up a legal challenge to the ability of Congress to regulate guns and ammunition made and retained in Montana under the constitutional authority of Congress to “regulate commerce among the states.” HB 246 declares that any guns and ammo made and retained in Montana are simply not subject to regulation by Congress (including by any federal agencies under laws passed by Congress).

If we can get this passed by the Legislature and vetted in the courts, we may also see the beginning of business in Montana making firearms for the Montana-only market. Wouldn’t that be nice?

Thanks loads for your help.

Best wishes,

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

Wolf bill fails

I’m sorry to report that our Wolf Bill, SB 183, failed on the Senate floor on Second Reading by a vote of 23-27.

The names of those voting AGAINST SB 183 are pasted below, FYI.

There were a few surprises. Senator Bruce Tutvedt (R-Kalispell) led the charge AGAINST SB 183. That’s surprising because there are so many hunters in Kalispell who have witnessed wolf devastation of game herds. Speaking in opposition to SB 183 included (no big surprise) Larry Jent (D-Bozeman). Other surprise opposition votes were Senators Taylor Brown (R-Huntley), Jeff Essman (R-Billings), Steve Gallus (D-Butte, although he also voted against the bill in Committee), Jim Keane (D-Butte), Rick Liable (R- Darby), Jesse Laslovich (D-Anaconda), and Ryan Zinke (R-Whitefish).

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com
=================================
Senators voting AGAINST SB 183 on Senate Second Reading, 3/24/2009

Branae, Gary
Brown, Taylor
Cooney, Mike
Erickson, Ron
Essmann, Jeff
Gallus, Steven
Gillan, Kim
Hansen, Ken (Kim)
Hawks, Bob
Jent, Larry
Juneau, Carol
Kaufmann, Christine
Keane, Jim
Laible, Rick
Larsen, Cliff
Laslovich, Jesse
Moss, Lynda
Schmidt, Trudi
Squires, Carolyn
Stewart-Peregoy, Sharon
Tropila, Joseph (Joe)
Tropila, Mitch
Tutvedt, Bruce
Wanzenried, David
Williams, Carol
Windy Boy, Jonathan
Zinke, Ryan

Wolf bill up soon – ACTION NEEDED

MSSA’s “Wolf Recovery Act” (to help Montana recover from wolves), SB 183, has been passed by the Senate Finance Committee and will be before the full Senate on Second Reading some time this week (unknown now when).

It’s time to get messages to your State Senator or all State Senators asking them to support SB 183.

The general theme of messages can cover any or all of the following points (or others):

1) Montana needs strong medicine to save the patient – Montana’s hunting heritage and game herds;

2) Trend analysis of delisting is 100% failure and projected to continue to fail. The wolf advocates lawsuits to block delisting are prepared and ready to file before a sympathetic federal judge, giving them command of the battlefield – they will never quit suing;

3) Even if delisting should stick, that won’t save Montana game herds because wolves must be managed under the terms of the fed-mandated Montana Wolf Management Plan which requires wolf numbers that will continue to savage Montana’s herds of huntable game and livestock;

4) Wolves are beginning to run out of game to kill in Montana, at which point they will turn to wholesale slaughter of Montana livestock;

5) Federal imposition of wolves depends on the power of Congress to “regulate commerce among the states.” There are no wild wolves sold across state lines in the Rockies, so that federal power needs to be tested and rejected;

6) Montana needs to claim the restitution for ongoing wolf damages to Montana authorized under SB 183.

7) SB 183 creates the only bargaining power Montana has over wolves – otherwise Montana is totally at the mercy of wolves and the federal government;

Idaho has a similar bill working. Montana needs to stand together with Idaho and Wyoming;

9) If delisting actually happens and sticks, the terms of SB 183 are held in abeyance – affects nothing. SB 183 is only effective if delisting fails, again.

PLEASE get messages in to Senators asking for support of SB 183. Second Reading in the Senate will be a CRITICAL hurdle for SB 183.

The most certain way to get messages to Senators is via the Legislature’s ONLINE FORM. Here is a ROSTER of Senators.

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

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